Terence Eden. He has a beard and is smiling.
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I'm never going back to Matrix

· 57 comments · 950 words · Viewed ~16,189 times

I should love Matrix. It is a decentralised, privacy preserving, multi-platform chat tool. Goodbye Slack and your ridiculous free limits. Adiós Discord and your weird gamification. Suck it IRC with your obscure syntax and faint stench of BO. WhatsApp and Telegram can stick their heads in a bucket of lukewarm sick and sing sea shanties! Let's join the future!

The problem is - Matrix is shit. Not just on a protocol level, but on an organisational level as well.

I joined Matrix at FOSDEM - the largest gathering of open source nerds in Europe. We were all encouraged to use it - every talk had its own channel, all the official comms came from there, I was even invited to a top-secret private channel for speakers. This was going to be epic! Viva la rèvölūçïón, right? Wrong.

It was dead. Even among the most seasoned geeks on the planet, most people preferred to use other services like Signal, Telegram, and Slack. Why? Because those other tools actually work.

Matrix has two official Android apps - one of which is old and unsupported, the other is new and doesn't work with many of the basic chat features.

I want to be absolutely clear about this - the company behind Matrix have put out an app which doesn't work with their own product! Lest you think I'm exaggerating, here's a typical view of the official FOSDEM speaker room, using the official Matrix app:

A list of errors saying "Unsupported Event".

It was embarrassing. People would pipe up in channels and say "this doesn't work" only to be told they were using the wrong app and should go back to the one marked unsupported. So they left, never to return. Even in the large talks, where people were encouraged to use the official Matrix chat, most of the conversation happened on other platforms. It was just too hard to use Matrix.

A few thousands geeks, all used to recompiling their own kernels and participating in the Fediverse, and most thought that Matrix was too much of a faff.

After FOSDEM, I kept the Matrix app on my phone. Occasionally receiving a ping from some long-forgotten channel.

And then, one day, I got hit with the most vile spam. A dozen notifications suddenly appeared on my phone with abuse, torture, and transphobic slurs in them.

You can view the screenshot - but, fair warning, it is grim.

This shouldn't be possible. It doesn't take an expensive team of moderators to add some keyword monitoring. It doesn't take a massive AI model to work out that a stranger shouldn't be able to bombard users with multiple notifications. You don't have to sacrifice your dream of a decentralised future - you just need to care about your users.

This stuff is basic.

I moaned about it on Mastdon and was surprised to receive a private reply from the official Matrix account.

Please do not encourage the spammer by giving them a platform and propagating their spam; you may want to consider deleting your post.

This is classic victim blaming. It is my fault for giving the spammer attention. I am the one who needs to take responsibility and delete the evidence. I shouldn't warn people that Matrix is actively dangerous to use.

Bullshit.

Here's what I expected them to say:

"We're sorry you had such a bad experience on Matrix. Rest assured we're working hard to block these spammers - here's a link to show what we're doing. You can protect your account further by doing x, y and z. Once again, sorry and we hope we can win back your trust."

I'm not saying scrappy open source projects have to hire anodyne corporate communications specialists; they just need to have a little empathy.

But, no, just constant whining about how it isn't their fault and how I am the one who needs to change my behaviour.

This is pretty typical behaviour from the team. Find any post complaining about some aspect of Matrix and you'll see their instant woe-is-me replies.

So I deleted the app. I would have liked to have nuked my account but apparently that's not possible.

I'm not the only one who feels like this. Here's an epic post by Marius, which concludes:

Between the slow performance, the increasing amount of spam, the miserable web client, and the unfinished state of Element X, the Matrix.org network is not something I am willing to continue to recommend, especially to non-technical users. Normal people are simply tolerating it to communicate with idealistic nerds like myself who insist(ed) on using it.

Matrix just isn't focussed on users. I'm not talking about user-experience tweaks like which shade of cornflower blue to use - I mean basic user needs like apps that work and a way to combat spam.

There's a long list of ways the protocol contributes to a poor user experience. It almost seems designed without regard for how it will actually be used.

While the protocol may be conceptually interesting and their intentions noble, I'm not prepared to suffer abuse in the name of technical purity.

Open Source and Open Standards nerds like me ought to know by now that the protocol is the least compelling thing about a service. Who cares if your home is built using only Stallman-blessed tools, when the walls are full of rats?

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57 thoughts on “I'm never going back to Matrix”

  7. hi @Edent thanks for the writeup, to some parts i can relate. and on some parts i disagree.

    i think we all hope to have a wonderfull free software and decentralised messenger solution. i would also recommend deltachat and xmpp. for me matrix was just the better solution, even all family members including grandparents are using it. (since years)
    i am eager to remove impediments along the way for them. the worst problems are finally resolved like the 'cant decrypt' ones. (btw. fixed approx. 2 years ago)

    for the evil spam attack, i must say as a matrix admin myself. this was not a "basic task". and i was very thankful and proud for the offered help and collaboration within the matrix community.

    Reply | Reply to original comment on freiburg.social

  10. @blog

    The thing is though, there are several projects for servers out there. As a decentralized FOSS project, you don't need to rely on one source for either servers nor clients.

    I don't know anything about the protocol itself. I don't know if there's anything there that is fundamentally broken, but if it's an implementation issue, that can be fixed by others.

    I use #FluffyChat for my client, and though I don't use it often, it is a fairly pleasant client to use I must say.

    Reply | Reply to original comment on fribygda.no

    1. @amici
      Have you looked at the other server projects? Because I checked last year in an attempt to move a community off Discord.

      Construct is dead. Dendrite is on life support. Conduit is struggling with dev velocity to keep up with Synapse's changes, including one that causes a big scare message on login with the new client. Conduwuit is an attempt to improve that, but I can't recommend it because of problems with how the project is managed.

      The ecosystem is a mess.
      @blog

      Reply | Reply to original comment on hachyderm.io

  15. Not being able to completely delete a user, including any conversation history, makes it a huge risk for anybody to run a matrix server if they either live in the EU or do business in the EU. GDPR requires, in most cases, that a user can request any personally identifiable information, which includes they public statements, can be deleted.

    Reply

  17. @Edent so sorry to hear there's spam on matrix. it's been safe so far for me since 2019. i've enjoyed using it to tempt loved ones towards the idea of respectful technology, and found it useful at #fosdem when one of our speakers left their spectacles in a devroom; the next session used our matrix area to contact us and reunite said glasses with their eyes. i really like it for voice and video calls, and not sure what else to use? for chat @delta is v nice.

    fosdem

    Reply | Reply to original comment on en.osm.town

    1. @nikatjef @blog I don't think anyone here is saying that we have problems with Matrix as an idea.

      Maybe one day Matrix will be a joy to use, and I welcome that day, and I suspect most everyone on this thread would as well.

      But unfortunately, today Matrix is just punishing to use. I'm glad for the guy and his grandma who are happy and have been for years, but for most of us, Matrix is frustration after frustration. Today.

      I still use and like IRC though I know that's a rather unpopular opinion. It's free, open, and has clients for every platform known to man.

      Reply | Reply to original comment on oldbytes.space

  20. @Edent as an old-school net user who remembers Mosaic being introduced, I never wanted anything to do with the Web2.0 social media junk - so when I heard of Matrix I really wanted to give it a try.

    I have to concur with everyone else here - it was just far too confusing and complicated to get into (even for a long-time tech nerd like me) and a horrible user experience. I couldn't imagine trying to persuade any friends or family to get on it so I gave up on it almost immediately.

    Reply | Reply to original comment on social.vivaldi.net

  23. @Edent not a matrix user myself and can't say #xmpp will impress you, but there's definitely not a centralization of ownership issues. Most of that community seems to be rallied behind #snikket lately which I self-host with delight thus far. Fragmentation in feature support across clients is the biggest struggle currently. More niche, but I do funnel my WhatsApp and Mattermost messaging through my XMPP server using #slidge. Been very stable for WA, have to restart Mattermost gateway regularly.

    slidgesnikketxmpp

    Reply | Reply to original comment on floss.social

  24. @Edent It truly is unfortunate. A federated chat client sounds great. And Ive been trying to make it work, but its still so difficult to use, hard to moderate, and goes down quite a bit.

    Im tempted to stay on irc for the rest of my days. What is everyone else using nowadays? Most of my communities are on discord...but its not the greatest at open anything.

    Threw your post up on lemmy/piefed here just FYI: https://piefed.social/post/1091319#post_replies

    I'm never going back to Matrix - Terence Eden

    Reply | Reply to original comment on social.chrisco.me

  25. Yes, I'm afraid I'm the same. I loved the ideas of what they were trying to do, but on the few times I've tried it, it seemed like a mess, with a horrible user interface.

    I was even willing to re-join Facebook to be part of some online groups, but I'd have to be much more desperate to voluntarily go to Matrix. (Or Discord, come to that, but that's because I'm not a teenager any more.)

    Reply

  27. @Edent As someone who use Matrix a bunch, it is… frustrating in many ways. The disjoint, half-redone apps don’t exactly leave a fantastic feeling (and if it’s taking years to reimplement what is mostly a chat protocol, then maybe you’ve over-complicated your protocol). The various times when apps spin loading, clearly spending a lot of time going to the network for content any other app would’ve cached feel like relatively basic usability. And yeah, even if you’re excluded from message data for DMs, you can at the very least implement client-side blocking/hiding of it.

    Some of the worst bits of badness I’ve avoided by not being on the largest server, and on one that cares much more about moderation. But that’s a single shortcoming solved — every implementation of the protocol I’ve tried just… has not been good.

    For so many things which I use Matrix for, I do wonder if we’re gonna reach a point where IRCv3 is stable enough and has enough adoption that channels on major servers can turn on things like persistence and threading, and then we’re just going to head back to IRC.

    Reply | Reply to original comment on glauca.space

  28. @Edent Holy cow yes this.

    Someone just recently (I wish Masto's search of my own history were better!) suggested I should try Matrix when I said I still use and like IRC.

    It's not perfect, but it's free and open and there are clients for every platform known to man.

    I want to like Matrix, I just wish it would stop beating me about the neck and head every time I try using it!

    Reply | Reply to original comment on oldbytes.space

  31. @blog these are very valid criticisms.
    I honestly stopped using #matrix because of the spam. I don't want to get bombarded with images I do not want to see.
    You'd imagine that adding an option to not display images automatically would be easy to implement, but I haven't seen it.

    It's back to #IRC now. But it feels insecure, and the number of users is declining.
    What FOSS alternative has a realistic chance to take over?

    Reply | Reply to original comment on mastodon.world

    1. @rriemann @blog I have used Matrix for several years now, in a professional capacity as well as casual contexts. It's untenable.

      There are constant issues with keys; Element is the client with the best support I've found and it's a complete mess (I experienced the same spam wave, and to this day I can't dismiss several channel invites in the mobile client); and the focus of the company seems to be getting people to pay for it. I'd ask for my money back.

      Reply | Reply to original comment on hachyderm.io

      1. @leftmostcat @rriemann @blog Key issues are almost always because of users who don't really understand how the encryption works. Can't blame non-techies for that...

        The spam wave was horrible, indeed. I've seen enough disturbing images for the rest of my life. The problem with non-removable invites is easily solved: logout and login again, so that your client rereads the information from the server.

        Point is that the invites have usually been removed already, but you client doesn't always get that, and will still show you the invite that no longer exists.

        Reply | Reply to original comment on procolix.social

    1. @meowki @blog
      "It’s not that easy to move the key from say an android or iOS device to a desktop."

      I have put it into my password manager, but it's not even needed when you do verification (e.g. via emoji comparison).

      "It should be simple: Type these 10 words on your new device, or scan this QR code. And you should not have to log in first, and then have to verify keys. Should be the same process."

      I know, and there is a proposal for this (including implementations in Element and Synapse), but it is neither officially part of the Specification yet nor enabled on matrix.org:
      https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/pull/4108

      Reply | Reply to original comment on climatejustice.social

  36. @blog You make several good points. The protocol is complicated, there is as yet not app for phones that does everything you want/need and you will run into problems every now and then.

    But... No new technology is without its problems and growing pains. If you have followed the discussions of the past few years, you know why development may not go as quick as we'd want, and why some issues aren't Element.io's highest priority.

    The servers I've created and used in the past 7 years, including my own private server that's been online for those 7 years and in daily use, work. It takes some effort to configure the whole kit-n-kaboodle, but I think it's worth it.

    Non-techies may want to wait a while before venturing into the world of Matrix, although they could do really well if someone with a decent level of knowledge helps them. I try to fulfill that role, both private and professionally.

    @voorstad

    Reply | Reply to original comment on procolix.social

  39. @blog i totally agree, but I also have to hop on on the last part, that it is an interesting idea.

    I use the tuwunnel implementation together with cinny and fluffychat apps and just don't care about synapse and element anymore and it helped me.

    I have a stable discord bridge in the backend, which will get the messages for me on my phone, so that I don't have to use the heavy discord app. I have to admit my server is not federated and more for private use, but this made it work.

    Reply | Reply to original comment on snaggletooth.life

  40. @blog
    I'm using delta chat with my family, a relatively obscure email based instant messenger using autocrypt. Recently I considered switching to matrix as I liked the idea of a self hostable decentralized e2e encrypted messenger with a protocol actually made for instant messaging. Optimistically I ported over a fun bot we were using. After that I tried MANY clients on android and desktop linux and all were garbage. End of story.

    Reply | Reply to original comment on mastodon.social

  41. This blog post by @Edent hits so hard. #Matrix is such trashy software, it goes nowhere and is awful to use filled with bugs. The only reason I have it is because my local hackspace is using it.

    Not like anyone could securely communicate with me on it though, the session verification is permanently bugged. :thisisfine: Not surprising given the >1.4k npm packages it relies on. so secure, much wow, very (Message could not be decrypted)

    I'm never going back to Matrix https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2025/07/im-never-going-back-to-matrix/

    Reply | Reply to original comment on chaos.social

  43. @blog

    This is pretty much my experience on Matrix chat when I tried it out.

    I ended up getting funneled into a server with an idealistic nerd admin and their flock of minions. The minions started actively abusing the chat to cause denial of service on a specific client (I think it was called Fractal).

    It became clear that this "It almost seems designed without regard for how it will actually be used." is 100%, no 1000%, Matrix chat.

    Stay away from it.

    Terence bashes Internet Relay Chat, but it is still by far the best. It also is a grand display of how out of touch the FOSDEM group is.

    Reply | Reply to original comment on social.vivaldi.net

  44. @blog Matrix has too many issues to waste your life for. If its protocol is designed to fetch any image from remote server, then I can only say that may be a huge issue for server operator to deal with from legal standpoint (if these images are illegal content).

    There's a valid reason I encourage others to use XMPP or Signal instead (which do meet the definition of open, XMPP does meet decentralized criteria). At least with XMPP you're sure that its server does not have to be a resource hog.

    Reply | Reply to original comment on hostux.social

  46. @Edent I use it every day and have no problems at all. Quite surprised by all the comments here. It's almost like everyone else is using a different product.

    I do hear people complain how difficult it is to run a matrix server, so I get the protocol may have problems.

    I don't really see what to replace it with though.

    Reply | Reply to original comment on fosstodon.org

  49. I really agree with this article. I tried using Matrix, I tried really hard to leave Telegram to use it, but it never worked the way I wanted it to. I'm still on Telegram even though that means contradicting some of the things I stand for, but for me it's the option that convinces me the most and it's extremely difficult to replace.

    I loved the idea of Matrix, but you only need to use it for a few days to notice all its problems. Honestly, I don't plan on going back either. The moderation is also terrible. I used to think Telegram had moderation issues, but compared to Matrix, it's a church, lol.

    Reply

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